Curse

bhavv · Sep 19, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

I had the privalegde of chatting to gaile in Gunnar's hold and asked her about buffing the useless elites (The power is yours, Withdraw hexes, P+H, Keystone Signet and Mirror of Ice were the ones I mentioned). She said it was a good idea and asked if there was a suggestion thread on any forums, there isnt so I thought I'd start one. Hopefully this can be kept here untill she stumbles across it.

By 'useless' elites, I would class any elite that doesnt see play in the game as useless, and even some which are used (Like P+H).

So these would be the changes I would suggest for the elites mentioned above:

[skill]"The Power Is Yours!"[/skill]

Just simply remove the insane -10 energy degen and give a clear +8 energy to all party members. Its only just slightly better then never give up and Aria of Zeal this way anyway, and still completely inferior to Bip.

[skill]withdraw hexes[/skill]

Reduce Energy cost to 10, change recharge to instant change functionality to - Remove all hexes from party members within earshot. Keep the current recharge system (4s per hex removed at 16 DF).

[skill]peace and harmony[/skill]

Fistly compare this spell to Energetic Was Lee Sa to understand the following changes. Make it a target self spell and give it +2 energy regen. Reduce the duration to 18-20 seconds at max DF.

[skill]keystone signet[/skill]

Change to: All of your signets except keystone signet are recharged. For each signet recharged this way you gain 1-3 energy (1 at 1-5 inspiration, 2 at 6-10, 3 at 11+)

[skill]Mirror of Ice[/skill]

Buff to affect up to the next 3 spells scaling with water magic.

[skill]hex eater vortex[/skill]

Remove a hex from target ally. This hex is removed from all party members and nearby foes are struck for ... damage. (The same foe cannot be struck more then once).

A decent counter verses AoE hexes is needed.

Post what you think and any other Ideas for these or other skills too.

Wild Karrde · Sep 19, 2007, 12:29 PM // 12:29

I like all your ideas except the one about Peace and Harmony, If it was changed to that with such a short duration it would KILL my monks build. Yes I do use P&H and I LOVE it, it works GREAT as is. but the +2 energy regen would rock although I dont see it happening if the duration is left the same.
[skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill] [skill]Guardian[/skill] [skill]Protective Spirit[/skill] [skill]Gift of Health[/skill] [skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill] [skill]Remove Hex[/skill] [skill]Peace and Harmony[/skill] [skill]Divine Boon[/skill]

OwAT00nC3ZmIQqHhxNdLRhwRAA

Divine Favor :15 (11 +1 +3)
Protection Prayers : 11 (10+1)
Healing Prayers : 11 (10+1)
Maybe not the best build but its cool to see every prot skill heal for at least 100 health, and its fun to use.

but anyway..... useless elites made useful.....

[skill]Cleave[/skill]
I think this should have the damage buffed so it can be on par with Eviscerate, its not useless but it should be buffed a little bit; I know DPS for Cleave works out to just a few decimals over Eviscerate if spammed but thats if you dont take the DW the eviscerate causes into account.

[skill]Poison Arrow[/skill]

Change to: If Poison Arrow hits, you strike for +5...12....15 dmg and your target becomes poisoned for 5...17....22 seconds

It would be close to Barrage in damage but instead of hitting 6 foes it only hits one.

[skill]Decapitate[/skill]

Change to 10 adrenaline, and: You lose all adrenaline. If this attack hits you stirke for +5...30...40 damage and cause a Deep Wound for 5....17...21 seconds, This attack always results in a critical hit.

I think this would be suitable because its more adrenaline and you loose only adrenaline, and it doesnt strike for as much (but still more than eviscerate) and you cant use any adrenaline skills after like the Eviscerate/Executioners strike Combo.

EDIT:changed dmg

[skill]Preservation[/skill]

Change to:Create a level 1...8...11 Spirit. Every 4 seconds, this Spirit heals one ally in the area for 10...94...122 Health. This Spirit automatically targets any party member under 25% health; this spirit dies after 45 seconds. 10 energy, (and MAYBE make it last 60 seconds)

bhavv · Sep 19, 2007, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Preservation - Buff to earshot if it hasnt already been done, change its AI to target the party member with lowest HP.

Ok, so for P+H, 20s duration, +2 regen, target self only? That makes it a little bit better then ritualists with energetic was lee sa.

Aethon · Sep 19, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Personally I would imagine the official wiki, a page in which is dedicated to this topic, would be better suited for this kind of discussion; odd, since Gaile should know this exists:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...powered_Skills

And it's not just for elites, either.

Turbobusa · Sep 19, 2007, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Preservation is already good. My necro loves it. Range is small but it has:

- Short cast
- Small cost
- Fast recharge

Enough to let it as it is.

bhavv · Sep 19, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Well gaile is completely unaware of these skill requests, no matter how many times they have been mentioned. She specifically asked if there was a suggestion thread anywhere, so I started one.

Wild Karrde · Sep 19, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Preservation is already good. My necro loves it. Range is small but it has:

- Short cast
- Small cost
- Fast recharge

Enough to let it as it is.

but it sees very little use because its broken. Its randomness makes it usless for a heal when it heals a healthy target and lets another die. 3 second casting time is NOT short, its just begging to get interupted like most of the rits spirits.

distilledwill · Sep 20, 2007, 07:41 AM // 07:41

The cast time on preservation is a lot shorter than some spirits (arent some 5s?).

I think [card]"The Power Is Yours!"[/card] needs to be fixed to give something like.

You loose all your energy and have -5 energy regen for 10 seconds. All party members within earshot gain +5 energy regen for 10 seconds.

The +10 energy is just fairly useless. A lot of characters have non-elites that can gain more energy than that for no downside.

Turbobusa · Sep 20, 2007, 08:57 AM // 08:57

So what, you want a fast cast, long lasting, smart healer?
I forgot to add, it powers lots of rit spells, like other spirits, but it justifies the cast time imo.
This skill is fine. The only buff I can see happening is the healing frequency which could be reduced.

About the power is yours:
it still need to be inferior to other energy gain elites, because it is a shout (no cast time, no interrupts), and because it is multi-targeting.

distilledwill: is it -5 fixed energy degeneration (like when under ursan blessing for example)? otherwise, the paragon can just counter the degeneration by spaming gfte...

Oso Minar · Sep 20, 2007, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Preservation is garbage, it should at LEAST be within Earshot. I wouldn't particularly care about the AI auto-targetting the person with the lowest health, but the range just kills Preservation.

Personally, most of the Ritualist Elites aren't noteworthy. I'd rather take Offering of Spirit and spam the healing skills myself.

Wild Karrde · Sep 20, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

So what, you want a fast cast, long lasting, smart healer?
I forgot to add, it powers lots of rit spells, like other spirits, but it justifies the cast time imo.
This skill is fine. The only buff I can see happening is the healing frequency which could be reduced.

About the power is yours:
it still need to be inferior to other energy gain elites, because it is a shout (no cast time, no interrupts), and because it is multi-targeting.

distilledwill: is it -5 fixed energy degeneration (like when under ursan blessing for example)? otherwise, the paragon can just counter the degeneration by spaming gfte...

First of all I never said I wanted it to be cast faster, YOU said that a 3 second casting time is fast, maybe in regards to other spirits that take 5 seconds, but its extremely slow compared to most skills. And if you read my post right I said if it does target allies with low health then its duration should be lowered and most likely made 10 e.

How does it Power other rits spells??? Are you talking about the ones that need to be cast within earshot of a spirit or get better if they are cast within earshot of a spirit? If so then ANY spirit does that, just because preservationd does also doesnt justify anything, it jsut means ITS A SPIRIT LIKE THE OTHER RIT SPIRITS.

Because the changes would make it a somewhat smart spirit, that is now NOT a waste of an ELITE slot makes it overpowered? Again I said somewhat smart, meaning it can tell whos health is low and whos health isnt, since this ability would only trigger if the allies health is below 25% it would go back to randomly healing allies after just healing the said ally once because its health would most likely be over 25% after that heal. It wouldnt be able to change its time between healing so its ability to stop a spike or anything of that matter is non existent.

bhavv · Sep 21, 2007, 02:15 AM // 02:15

People may or may not like preservation, But in all honesty its range is useless and should be earshot. How many of your party members stay in its area anyway? Especially with H/H? All other spirits were changed to Earshot a long time ago, this one should be too.

Another Idea...

[skill]hex eater vortex[/skill]

Remove a hex from target ally. This hex is removed from all party members and nearby foes are struck for ... damage. (The same foe cannot be struck more then once).

A decent counter verses AoE hexes is needed.

Wild Karrde · Sep 21, 2007, 08:07 AM // 08:07

[skill]Magehunter's Smash[/skill]

Change to : if this attack hits you stirke for +1...16...20 damage. If it hits a foe who is under the effects of an Enchantment, that foe is knocked down.

Still not all that great compared to other hammer elites but at least this way it adds some damage.

[skill]Destructive was Glaive[/skill]

Increase the amount of time you can hold it to 20 seconds or so. I know how it is now you can put it back up right away but that wastes a TON of energy. the 10% AP isnt that much anyway, Almost all of the elementalists Air Magic skills have 25% AP.

[skill]Seeping Wound[/skill]

Change to:For 5...10...14 seconds, if target foe is suffering from Bleeding or Poison, that foe suffers from Disease and has -1...2...3 Health degeneration.

I was lookin at The worst Elite thread and this one came up alot. maybe this will make it worthwhile since disease can spread. maybe a bit too much though.

Cebe · Sep 21, 2007, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Another Idea...

[skill]hex eater vortex[/skill]

Remove a hex from target ally. This hex is removed from all party members and nearby foes are struck for ... damage. (The same foe cannot be struck more then once).

A decent counter verses AoE hexes is needed.

Personally I love Hex Eater Vortex, it's one of my favourite mesmer elites and particularly effective in the Charr Lands amongt other places. AoE hexes never seem to pose much of a threat, things like Suffering and Ulcerous Lungs give the party some gentle degen, which could be put right with Recuperation. There already is a party-wide hex removal, if it's *really* required, with Withdraw Hexes, and also if party members are stood close enough together I've found Hex Eater Signet to be not too bad.

I like the fact this skill strips an enchantment, it means you can wait for a Charr Hexreaper to cast a hex on you...stand in the middle of the warriors and strip all their conjures.

Why was a change to [wiki]Clamor of Souls[/wiki] not suggested?

Turbobusa · Sep 21, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Ok preservation powers rit spells, just like other spirits. it's still a fast recharging, fast cast (for a spirit), and cheap spirit. Range is quite small. now put this on a necro. Say, add life. you got yourself a healer with unlimited energy.
Buffing it will just turn necros into overhealing crap. it is far from useless, hence the need of not buffing it.

Ho and hex eater vortex?!? A buff? watch a good Hex eater vortex mesmer in gvg, you'll know when he cast it, trust me. It's a cheap damage dealing spells, it removes a hex, it recharges faster than most hex removals, and you even got an enchant removal.
As i know someone will come up with this: Shatter hex cost 5 energy more, making it harder to spam, and it doesn't remove an enchant(gogo aegis chains, sod's, guardians....)

masta_yoda · Sep 28, 2007, 12:50 PM // 12:50

[QUOTE=bhavv]

[skill]"The Power Is Yours!"[/skill]

Just simply remove the insane -10 energy degen and give a clear +8 energy to all party members. Its only just slightly better then never give up and Aria of Zeal this way anyway, and still completely inferior to Bip.

QUOTE]
ever heard of negative energy set, switch to shield and a 15/-5 energy offhand and use it ...switch back when it ends
think deeper

zling · Sep 29, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

you should include in your list most warrior tactics and strength elites and some weapon elites such as whirlind attack(that 2 adrenaline axe elite) hundred blades(make it worthwhile using again) forceful blow(add critical or something to compenstate for the lack of kd)
monk elites that need fixing such as PNH and WH that you mentioned but also Blight(make it cheaper and/or larger heal) all of the healing prayer elites besides LoD and WoH(that got recently buffed)
necro elites such as Lingering Curse, too expensive for what its worth, gaze of contempt, rend, etc remove all enchantments, are cheaper and non elite. not to mention OoA, DA, AoG, etc there are plenty of mass enchantment removal nowadays, Lingering Curse is just sub par as it is.
most mesmer elites, mainly dom and inspiration elites like power flux, power leech and those crappers.
lol, almost forgot about fixing the ele elites, complained about those for far too long already... all the mind x spells(only the new blast is any good), all the lightning elites besides BSurge, all the E-Storage elites, non Shatterstone Water elites, non SH nor SF Fire elites and some Earth elites, covers pretty much everything heh? major work needs to be done here...
many ritualist, dervish, paragorn and assassin elites, these classes have such a few usable elites that its not even funny...
there are so many elites that need fixing to be in par with the current dominant elites, gaile and whoever else helps her with that(if anyone at all) should look at all the elites in the game and balance them out some way or another... there is a lot of work to do in that department, not just buffing useless elites but also nerfing overpowered ones

bhavv · Oct 09, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

[QUOTE=masta_yoda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

[skill]"The Power Is Yours!"[/skill]

Just simply remove the insane -10 energy degen and give a clear +8 energy to all party members. Its only just slightly better then never give up and Aria of Zeal this way anyway, and still completely inferior to Bip.

QUOTE]
ever heard of negative energy set, switch to shield and a 15/-5 energy offhand and use it ...switch back when it ends
think deeper

Its still useless. And morgahn cant change weapon sets.

Div · Oct 09, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Did you just list hex eater vortex as a useless elite? Wow you are baeeed at this game.

BaconSoda · Oct 11, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Here is my submittion for preservation:

Energy 15
Cast 5s
Recharge 60s

Create a lvl 1...8...11 Spirit. Every 5 seconds, each party member within earshot is healed for 23...57...79hp. Preservation loses 50...32...29 health for each ally healed in this way. This spirit dies after 60 seconds.

I think this'd be a good way to rework preservation, yet keep it balanced.